新媒体艺术中的现代中国图景_新媒体艺术家金江波访谈.pdf (532.15 kb)
特别策划：现代性 Special Scheme: Modernity 30 总第181期 2008 05
新媒体艺术中的现代中国图景
——新媒体艺术家金江波访谈
Modern China Landscape in New Media Arts
—Interview of New Media Artist Jin Jiangbo
编者按：金江波，生于70年代的新媒体艺术家，长期致力于新媒体艺术的创作与国际间的交流。其近期作品的主题是以一种微观、具体的视角关注中国当下的现实生活，以一种看似“非艺术”的艺术方式对中国当代经济社会进行着不屈不挠的现场考古。从他的新媒体艺术中我们无疑可以管窥到那种超越西方经验的、中国特有的现代景观。
采访、整理：
方晓风 陈岸瑛 肇文兵
Reporter:Fang Xiaofeng
Chen Anying
Zhao Wenbing
《装饰》：关于现代性，它是一个时间概念还是一个风格样式，或是一种思想方法、一种现实状况，都是值得讨论的，尤其和艺术、设计有关的话题更为宽泛。现代性里面一个人们难以回避的问题是技术性的问题，很多人对现代的理解就是源自技术这个层面，你是从事新媒体艺术创作的，可能对技术层面就更为敏感，请你从这个角度谈一谈中国的现代性问题。
Fang: As for modernity, is it a time concept or a style, a way of thinking or a reality? The topics relevant to art and design often seem fairly broad, yet it is worth our discussion. In modernity there are technical problems hard to evade. Many people comprehend modernity from technical level. Since you have been long engaged in the creation of the New Art Media, probably you are more sensitive to technical level. Would you like to talk about China’s modernity from this perspective?
金江波：要去定义现代性并不是一件非常容易的事情。推动现代社会发展的根本还是技术上的进步，无论是蒸汽机的出现，还是现在的信息技术、基因技术等，科幻小说早已经被部分地变为现实，对生命的认识和伦理观念也不断地变化。世界在变化，科学技术起到了很大的作用。对艺术家来讲，形态的多元性，艺术创新的问题也面临着工具变化所产生的影响。例如现在我们讲的新媒体，在古代的时候，印刷术、版画的出现，对于古人来讲也是一种“新媒体”，同样还有摄影术的发明也是新的艺术形态。现代的计算机技术、网络技术和信息技术的发展，改变了人的文化身份和时空观，同样推动了作为媒介艺术的虚拟、互动、体验、参与等新形态的产生。艺术的现代性除了体现在对文化上的感知，对世界的认识之外，与技术的变革有着密切的关系。未来艺术的概念与我们现在的认知还会有很大变化，技术推动材料变化之后，有可能美术馆不再是现场的了，艺术品的收藏也不一定是物质上的，它有可能就是虚拟现实的。
Jin: It is by no means easy to define modernity. The fundamental power to advance the society lies in ultimately the progress made in technology, be the invention of stream engine or the present information and genetic technology. Some of the science fiction has been turned into reality and the understanding of life and ethical doctrines is constantly changing. The world is changing and science and technology plays a critical role in the process. For the artists, ideological diversity and artistic innovation are influenced by the changes in different tools. For example, the media we are talking about is considered new. In ancient times, the advent of printing technology and engravings was also considered "new media". This is true to the invention of photography. The rapid development of modern computer, network and information technology has brought huge changes to humans' cultural identity and ideas of time and space, which put spurs on the new morphology of New Art Media such as virtual reality, interactivity, experience and participation. Embodied by the cultural perception and understanding of the world, the modernity of art is closely allied to the technical revolution. The concept of future art would vary greatly from our current understanding. After the change is done by technical power, the gallery may not be necessarily on-site and the artistic collection may not be necessarily materialized. They are probably virtual reality. The world is stepping up its pace; modernity and the modern time concept have been changed. The technical power renders human relations rather subtle, so does the relation between human and art.
《装饰》：你认为在当代哪几种技术对艺术的影响比较大？
Chen: What technology do you think exert the most impact on the modern art?
金江波：我觉得都有。影响艺术的还是科学技术，科学和艺术两者的共同目标是一致的，都是强调原创精神和发明创造。艺术家对这个世界不停发问的方式影响科学家不停地去找寻验证的方法和过程，新材料、新工具，也影响了艺术阐述方式和表现手法。现在的一些艺术家也运用心理学、生理学的研究方式，将一个人的梦境可视化，包括弗洛伊德的心理学知识也不只是文字上的东西，把它放到艺术领域里也是可以展开讨论的，并且是超越原来的视觉经验和艺术经验的。对艺术家来说，没有哪种材料和技术是不可以做作品的，当艺术家的观念成立的时候材料和技术就相应找到嫁接的平台了。所以，很难说是具体是哪一种科学技术对艺术产生影响。
Jin: All of them. I think. What influences art is science and technology. Science and art share the same aim, both emphasizing originality and invention. The way that the artists consistently question the world is just like the way scientists constantly seek a way out, and the use of the new materials and tools influence the way of art exposition and presentation. Nowadays, some artists visualize people’s dream by employing research methods of psychology and physiology, even the psychological theories of Freud are not something literal, and it can be discussed when placed in art performance and transcends the previous visual and art experience. Some artists adopt nanotechnology to make artwork that can freely grow. No materials can not be made as artwork for artists. Moreover, after the artist’s concept is established, the platform grafting material and technology will accordingly take shape. Therefore, it is hard to tell which kind of science and technology influences art.
《装饰》：在新媒体艺术史中，一开始出现的是照相术，然后是电影、录像，最后是计算机，当前的新媒体主要是采用哪几种技术？
Chen: In the history of New Art Media, photography was first invented, and then film, video and finally computer, which technologies do the current New Art Media mainly adopt?
金江波：新媒体这几个字就像我们说的现代性一样，很难去定义，你可以从时间上去定义，也可以从哲学、社会学角度去概括。归根到底，新媒体有一个很大的特点，就是它的载体非常丰富，不像以前的艺术载体相对单一，比如说绘画和材料之间的关系。而新媒体艺术和材料之间的关系比较丰富，涵盖了很多种手段，跟这个社会的多元化有极其密切的关系，比如通讯、网络、卫星、数码、录像都可以概括。我们叫它新媒体，只是因为还没有给它一个很好的定义，比如在照相术出现的时候，那时没有新媒体这个词，如果有，我们也可以叫它是新媒体。
Jin: Just like the modernity in question, it is difficult to define New Art Media. You can define it in terms of time, philosophy and sociology. In the final analysis, New Art Media has one major feature, that is, it is compatible with varied vehicles, which differs much from the relatively simple vehicles before such as the relations between painting and painting materials. The relations between New Art Media and materials are relatively rich, covering varied means, and this has much to do with social diversity, including communication, network, satellite, video and computer, etc. The reason we call it new media is that it has not been properly defined. When the photography appeared for the first time, we did not find a proper name for it, but we would call it new media if we had found.
《装饰》：进入你作品的现实主要是哪个方面呢？或者说，你主要关心哪方面的现实？
Chen: What major reality aspects come into your artwork? Or rather, which aspects of reality do you care most?
金江波：这是有阶段性的，每代人有每一代人的时代特点，我们这一代人出生在一个用经济信仰代替了所有信仰的时代。我的成长过程中经历了“万元户”、“下海”等等这样的浪潮。这一代人对社会的认识和参与的活动几乎都是和经济有关的，所以我们面对的就是经济现实和经济信仰。全球化的进程加速，全球的财富
流动性加剧，这些无不深刻影响我们这代人的成长和生活视野。在我们这代人的成长过程中，反而政治的影响不是很大，经济的烙印对我的影响却很深。经历了改革开放这三十年，中国经济结构的矛盾变得非常微妙，有可能也很危险，这里面的研究空间非常大，原来的经济模式可能不会被持续发展下去，所以经济模式就要发生改变，在这个经济结构改变的过程中就会有很多的社会现实，既有累计下来的，也有马上面临的新问题，而不知所措的。在这种情况下有很多超越现实的荒诞，也有很多超越原来历史经验的夸张的东西，这些是我非常感兴趣，并想去研究和关注的。这些现实究竟是什么原因造成的，都很值得探讨，艺术家可以就此传载和记录，然后提出问题。我现在用这种宽幅大型的摄像作品，对中国的小商品市场进行研究，现实是——堆积如山的中国商品，全球80% 的家庭都有中国商品的现实。但是这80%有多少是达到商品质量要求的，其中有没有知识copy 的问题，有没有原创性，这些都是非常值得探讨的事实。还有，就是对生产这些商品的工厂进行考察，对工业生产的现实进行调查。中国的模式下确实存在一些环境问题，工业废品以及消化西方工业废品等相关问题，这些问题大量存在，而且景观也特别的荒诞。最近，我比较关心东南沿海的企业调整问题，也可以说是对企业大撤退、经济大撤退遗留下来的这种痕迹的现场“考古”。以这种“不像艺术”的艺术方式来做，也是艺术的现代性的一个很大的特点，但是中国艺术市场这种很盲目的现状让很多艺术家放弃了对非常真实的现状的关注。对中国现实的关注可以很微观、很具体，力量也很大。中国的很多东西都是超越西方经验的，这些都是中国特有的现代性，是真正的现代景观。
Jin: It can be defined in phases or stages. Each generation has its own time mark and our generation was born in an era in which economic belief takes the place of all other beliefs. I experienced the trends of “Ten-Thousand-Yuan Households”, “Go into business”, “Special Economic Zone” and “Reform and opening up policy” as I grow up. As the understanding of society and the participation of our generation are almost related with economy, what we are facing is the kaleidoscope of society supported by economic reality and belief. Moreover, the accelerating globalization and the intensifying flow of global wealth all have produced a profound effect upon our growth process and outlook. I was affected least merely by politics yet most by economy. This is quite different from the generation who were sent out to the countryside and those who were growing up during the Mao Zedong Era. Therefore, I prefer to express my point of view about economic society, including my study into it.
After 30 years of reform and opening up policy, the contradiction of China’s economy has become rather delicate, and even perilous. There is much to be studied. The sustained growth power - the advantages of foreign trade by exporting low-cost workforce and products have lost its prime times due to the double blows of US dollar deprecation and RMB revaluation. The advocate of alternative mode for the expansion of domestic demand has not been found yet, nor has the sign of overall activation been found. So, how to sustain economic development? The reason and cause of it could be well considered if the problem is placed before artists. There will be numerous social realities, accumulated as well as impending in the course of economic structure change. Under such a circumstance, there appear myriad preposterous things beyond reality as well as magniloquent things beyond historical experience. I am very interested in these and eager to study and keep concerned about it. How these realities are caused needs further discussion. Moreover, the microeconomic adjustment measures for economic structure may bring great change to the overall industry chain. For instance, the issue of the new labor law resulted in the wide retreat of a number of foreign-funded enterprises in Dongguan city, with 10,000 foreign-invested enterprises withdrawing from Guangdong province within only one year. Though this is regional on the surface, it has exerted sweeping impact on China’s overall economy, which strongly reflects the internal problems long rooted in the economic structure. Under this situation, I get in to excavate and record it, and I manage to release the “unnaturalized times scenery” with panoramic view through the art window to find out the strength point of modern art.
In addition, I also take time to study the small commodity market in China - a veritable mountain of China’s commodity, whose owners, the global families account for 80%.Among these families, how many commodities are qualified? Is there any intellectual right or originality involved? These problems also need further exploration. Facing with the world fact of “Made in China”, what are the attitudes of the commodity manufacturers? I also survey this point and conduct field research on industrial production reality. Under the mode of China’s development, there exist some environmental problems, and other problems concerning the industrial waste and consuming the western industrial waste, all these sound really absurd. Recently, I went to Dongguan and conducted survey and investigation on the vestige of foreign enterprises' retreat not long before. Though creating art in an unlike art manner features the present art modernity, the current sightless situation in China’s art market discourages many artists to care about the very real reality.
The concern about China’s reality could be meticulous and specific, and powerful as well. Many of Chinese things beyond the western experience boast unique modernity with Chinese characteristic, and that is the real modern landscape.
《装饰》：这其实也是现代西方艺术发展的一个方向——把艺术当作文件的一部分，所以就有卡塞尔文献展的出现，对艺术的看法在现代社会中也在发生着变化，从你的作品中似乎也可看到一种类似于影像志的工作方法。
Fang: This is, in fact, a development direction of the modern western art - regarding art as a part of document, hence the advent of the Kassel Documenta. The understanding of art in modern society has undergone great changes, and I sense kind of a method of photograph shop from your artwork.
金江波：对，从方法论上看有一定的相似之处，但是当我转入到现场的方式，就不完全是影像志的手法。影像是其中的一部分，有一些访谈的录像、对话，还有收集现场的很多实物，以及一些网络的调查等等，这样就拓展了艺术的概念。
Jin: You are right. They are similar to some degree in term of methodology, but when I change it into the on-site method, it is rather different. Photograph only plays a partial role. The exhibition comprises some videos of my interview and conversation with some Chinese economists and bankers, many on-site real collection articles and some Internet surveys, which help to broaden the concept of the way I intervene with the on-site art.
《装饰》：你认为当代中国新媒体艺术的形成和发展最主要的影响来自哪些方面？
Zhao: What are the most important influences exerted on the formation and development of current China’s New Art Media?
金江波：新媒体艺术的形成和发展，最主要的还是要有艺术家的参与，中国有很多很好的当代艺术家用新媒体艺术的方式在实践，对中国新媒体艺术的形成和发展都起到了很大的推动作用。还有一个就是批判的力量，目前这方面还比较弱，关于新媒体的批评，很少有人发出声音来。一个重要的原因是，技术使很多人产生距离感，媒体的技术有很多方面，所以很难讲清楚，并且艺术方面的问题也很多。中国的新媒体艺术还是在当代艺术的土壤里生发出来的，有了艺术家，还要有批评，有了批评，还要有机构。中国的新媒体艺术要想形成一个独立的艺术形态，西方的经验和模式也是值得借鉴的，比如很多电子艺术节，中国也在做这种以机构的形式操作全球艺术形态的讨论和研究，但是这种研究一定要专门化，落实到实处，在这个方面，国内的新媒体研究机构还有欠缺。
Jin: The formation and development of the New Art Media is mainly attributable to the commitment of Chinese artists. Many of great modern artists carry out experimental practice with the New Art Media, giving huge impetus to the formation and development of the New Art Media. Another one lies in the power of criticism, which is now rather weak. Few criticisms against the New Art Media can be heard. One of the important reasons is that technology helps to generate a sense of distance. The technology for the New Art Media is varied, hard to elaborate. And there are a lot of problems about art. China’s New Art Media grows out of the soil of modern art and it comprises not only artists, but also critics and as well as art institutes. The western experience and mode such as electronic festivals can be learned if China’s New Art Media expects an independent art form. China as an organization is now carrying out a discussion and research, yet the study about it must be specialized and completely implemented. In this sense, the domestic new media research and study are not sufficient enough and have a long way to go.
《装饰》：那么在中国当代社会的背景下或更深层次上对它的发展又有什么样的影响？
Zhao: What kind of impact can the background of contemporary Chinese society exert upon the development of the New Art Media?
金江波：现在从国家战略的角度来讲，把新媒体艺术（或者叫电子艺术、数码艺术）放在推动国家创意产业、文化产业发展的一个很重要的部分。比如上海在做电子艺术节，就是以政府的资源来推动它的发展。这种情况下，对艺术的理解不同，文化的观念不同，产生的形态也不同。很多是和产业结合在一起的，娱乐化、产品化、设计化的方式，也有一些参与者就是表现艺术观念的，因此现代的面目比较丰富，也比较复杂。
Jin: From the perspective of the national strategy, New Art Media（electronic art or digital art）is regarded as an important part in accelerating the development of the creative industry and culture industry. For instance, Tsinghua University is attempting to make interdisciplinary research between Media Arts and Sciences and global exchange; Shanghai is hosting e-Arts Festival, trying to exploit the Government’s resources to develop the New Art Media. Under such circumstances, different understandings of arts as well as different cultural concepts will result in different ideologies. Many of these are combined with industries in forms of entertainment, product and design. Some of the participants aim to represent art ideology; therefore, the countenance of modern art is fairly rich and complicated as well.
《装饰》：在今天的中国，与现代性有关的当代艺术或设计项目被不屈不挠地追求着，并且表现得如此迫切，你认为其根源何在？
Zhao: In today’s China, the modern art or design project pertinent to modernity is unflaggingly pursued and fervently shown, what is the reason for this phenomenon?
金江波：这个问题的关键在于，中国确实非常想成功。所有人都想超越历史、超越经验，人家走两百年的道路，我们想三十年就解决它，所以所有这些“不屈不挠”都是和这种理想有关系的，我想根源就在这里。
Jin: The key point of this question is that China really yearns for success. All people expect to succeed and transcend history and experience. We hope to complete the road that took the western countries over 200 years in 30 short years. That is why you see people unyieldingly pursuing modernity, and that is the very root of the problem.
《装饰》：德拉克洛瓦曾经对现代艺术家有过这样的描述：“现代艺术家不仅仅抒写情感，他们描绘外部世界并分析一切。”同时我们也看到，现代社会显然更加复杂、更为精细、同时也更值得分析。哪些方面是你最感兴趣并且非常乐于通过作品去表现的? 你的态度又是什么呢, 批判、讥讽、或其它？
Zhao: Delacroix once described modern artists: “The modern artists not only express their emotions, but also depict the outside world and analyze everything.” Meanwhile, we also see that the modern society becomes all the more complicated and meticulous, thus it is worth analyzing. Which aspects do you take most interest in and take pleasure in representing it through artwork? What is your attitude, critical, sarcastic or what?
金江波：有时候我是根据自己的一种喜好，有时候是根据对社会的一种认识。艺术家也可能有一些理性的东西，所以针对不同的问题，我的行为方式、手段会不一样。比如我以前做过一个《针灸人》，我把这个针灸人比喻成全球政治化的平台，一些穴位代表国际知名的政治家，激活一个穴位就有一个政治家出现在屏幕上，并且按我的理解来表演一段秀，这件作品就是调侃全球政治的现象和政治家明星化的特征，也是一种政治现实。这个时候我就是讽刺的，调侃他们的。但是，关于中国市场方面的一系列作品，我就用非常真实的、准确的、有针对性的方式。所以每一次作品的关注点不同，我的方式也会不一样。
Jin: Sometimes, it depends on my own liking and sometimes it depends on social recognition. Artists may have something rational, so my behavior and approaches are different according to different problems. For example, I once made 8 bronze figures with acupressure points, I take it as the platform of global politicization, and some acupressure points represent some worldly well-known politicians. Every time you activate an acupoint, a politician will appear on the display and act up a show. The so-called artwork is to mock the global political situation and the trend of politicians becoming big stars. This is a political reality. At this time, I just play with sarcasm. However, I will make good use of the real, accurate and targeted means to deliver my series of artworks concerning China’s market. My work focus varies each time, so does my way.
《装饰》：西方艺术界对“中国制造”这种现象似乎也很关注，但是很多艺术家是以一种嘲讽的态度来看待这个问题的，比如瑞士当代艺术家Regula Dettwiler的《兰花·中国制造》，把兰花画成标准化的机械零件组装而成的东西，其嘲讽之意不言而喻。不知道你所接触的西方艺术家以一种什么角度看待这个问题？
Chen: It seems that the western art has been concerned about "Made in China”, but many artists view this problem with sarcastic smile. I am wondering how the western artists you have known look at this problem?
金江波：西方对中国的认识各个层面的都有，甚至有一些西方艺术家对于中国的想象还是毛泽东时代的印象，他们没有想到中国已经如此发达。西方人对中国的某些现象是无法理解的，这是一种超越西方经验的现实。中国的快速发展又导致中国的现代性超越了西方的模式。目前西方也有一些艺术家在关注中国制造，其中对纯粹的商品、消费品的研究比较多，但是从经济结构的角度来研究的就比较少，像中国市场这种仓储式的、码头式的、家庭式的市场格局，在西方的工业化经验里是没有的，所以，国外的艺术家对这方面的关注就比较缺乏深度。
Jin: The western artists view China from various levels. Some still bear the impression left in the times of Mao Zedong, they never thought that China has been developing so fast. Some thoughts of the westerners about China is incomprehensible, which is a reality beyond western experience. However, as China develops so fast, China's modernity has transcended the western pattern. Currently, there are some western artists who care about “Made in China”. They have done much study on pure commodities and consumption goods, but they seldom study China’s unique economic pattern such as warehousing system, pier and family system in China’s broad market, which are hard to be found in the western industrialized experiences, therefore, foreign artists fail to probe it deeper, devoid of on-site experience and strength.
《装饰》：从你个人的经历来看，你认为今天的西方社会开始以一种什么样的心态来看待中国当代艺术，或者更具体地说是如何看待通过新媒体手段所表现的中国当代社会的？
Zhao: According to your own experience, what kind of mindset do the western countries have to look at China? Or rather, how to look at the modern China represented through new media means?
金江波：西方艺术界对中国当代艺术所抱有的看法和目的不一样。有些人希望在全球化的环境下收集和采样中国当代艺术，抱着一种对中国的兴趣来介入；其次，不同政治文明产生不同的文化取向，所以也有人是抱着这种对不同政治文明的兴趣介入到对中国政治文明的研究当中的，于是就出现了像政治波普这样的艺术；还有一部分收藏家和艺术机构要填补当代艺术收藏库，也要来挖掘中国当代艺术的价值，有可能到最后就变成在背后操作艺术的价格。他们的目的不一样，心态也不一样。我想他们主要是从这几个渠道来关注中国当代艺术的。关于西方如何看待通过新媒体及其它手段所表现的中国当代社会的，这个问题我前面也提到过，由于当代社会现实已经很荒诞了，研究现实就更有价值，特别是中国的现代性——在那么短的时间里超越西方经验来完成的中国现代性，就更有研究价值。
Jin: The western art circles have nourished different viewpoints and purposes for China’s modern art. Some people with an interest in China prefer to collect and sample China’s modern art in the setting of economy globalization; some different political civilizations generate different cultural tendencies, so some people get engaged in the study of China’s political civilization with interest in different cultures, so Popper' s political philosophy came into being; still, other collectors and art organizations expect to fill full China's modern collection library and unearth the value of China's modern art, and they might eventually manipulate the art price in the background. Their purposes and attitudes are different. I think they care about China's modern art from these perspectives. As for how the western countries look at China's modern society represented through new media and other means, in fact, I have already mentioned this before. As the modern society is really fantastic, it is more valuable to study the reality, China’s modernity in particular; in such a short time, it has completed China’s modernity transcending the western experience, thus it is worthwhile to study.
《装饰》：2007 年10 月和今年年初，你和艺术家邱志杰共同参与的名为《记忆共享》的新媒体艺术展分别在深圳和香港展出，这次展览的作品多为互动式的，但是在不同文化情境下的映射会有很大差异，你认为在两地的展览中，这种差异主要表现在哪里？
Zhao: In October 2007 and at the beginning of 2008, the New Art Media Exhibition - “Memory Share” was jointly made by you and Mr. Qiu Zhijie in Shenzhen and Hong Kong. The exhibited artworks are interactive, yet there will be big differences reflected in different cultures, what are the major differences between the two exhibitions?
金江波：深圳画院当时举办这个展览是有一定针对性的，他们在作当代艺术的时候更多的是关注新媒体艺术，并以此为介入点。这个展览提倡的是现场，提倡和普通百姓之间的互动，所以把展览放在深圳画院和中心书城来作，完全开放式的，能够给小朋友玩的作品，让他们去认知新媒体艺术的方式。但是展览到了香港就有点不一样，他们比较强调香港的外来艺术和本地的对话，所以也作了个论坛，叫“全球化时代下的新媒体地区艺术交流”。这样的交流，首先是文化土壤不同，艺术作品的面目不一样，而我们这里有更多的社会烙印在里面，所以我也用到了文革期间的一些东西，也有对“中国暴龙”这样一种形象的描绘，然后也有《中国市场图景》这样的作品。而香港的艺术家更注重情感性的体验，他们像西方的艺术家一样也比较强调技术性，把各种技术语言转换过来，开发技术的可能性，然后重新组合，而我们是通过对现实的介入，技术可能会比较简单，但同时也很有价值。
Jin: Shenzhen Fine Art held this exhibition with certain focus. They are concerned more about the New Art Media and regard it as a breakthrough point. The exhibition promoted on-site experience and interactivity between the public, so they arranged the exhibition in Shenzhen Fine Art Institute and Shenzhen Book City, which is completely open, and it can entertain children, capable of leading them to get to know the New Art Media. However, the exhibition in Hong Kong is quite different. Hong Kong put much emphasis on the dialogue between the exported art and the local art, so they set up a forum called “New Art Media in the context of new post-modernism” While such exchanges are based on different cultural soils with different art appearances, our paintings here reveal more of social miniatures as I added some elements related to “Cultural Revolution” to my painting, which can be seen through the characterization about “China Tyrannosaurus” and China Market Image. Hong Kong artists place much more emphasis on emotional experience. Following the western artists, they stress technical elements, expect to translate the technical language, explore the technical possibilities and then integrate them; however, we start this from emphasizing reality and technical elements might be simple yet valuable.
《装饰》：你是如何理解“艺术产业化的”？你认为在今天的中国，所谓“艺术产业化”是一种什么样的景象？
Zhao: How do you comprehend the concept of art industrialization? In today’s China, what kind of picture would you map for the so-called “art industrialization”？
金江波：在现代商业社会，艺术产业化是一种必然，西方文明也好，东方文明也好，都在强调商业社会。现在中国的艺术产业，特别是在北京，可以看到是很火爆，艺术博览会此起彼伏，这也是个好现象，从大的范围来看说明了市场的需求。去年中国艺术品市场超过法国成为全球第三大市场。关键是，这里面存在的问题，艺术价格的火爆如果能反映真实的艺术价值的话，那就是正常的，否则就是泡沫化的。在西方做一个博览会或画廊，推出一个好的艺术家或作品都会经过一些严格的措施和时间上的把握，而中国现在这方面太商业化了，国外当然也有这种商业的画廊，但是他们要签约一个艺术家不是那么容易的一件事情，是需要时间积累的，我们这里好像太自由了。这也是商业的一种火爆和短时间迸发的结果，很多软件的东西都没有跟上来，也带来对艺术产业化的误解和误导。真正的艺术产业化，不是通过艺术博览会或者画廊的简单的买卖关系，还应该有艺术批评，画廊和画廊之间也会拉开距离，做不同领域的艺术，而不是像中国现在这样，一个艺术家可以和几家画廊签约。很多年轻的、成功艺术家的经验被局部放大了，变成了模仿的道具。策展人的素质也是一个问题，同样是因为现在的艺术产业太火爆了。
Jin: In modern commercialized society, art industrialization is inevitable. Regardless of the western civilization or the eastern civilization, both of them put much emphasis on commercialization. Nowadays, China’s art industry is booming, especially Beijing where art exhibitions are held one after another. I consider it benign because it reflects the market demand in a broad sense. Moreover, China’s art market exceeded that of France last year, ranking the third place world wide. However, if the art price really reflects the actual art value, it is normal; otherwise, it is sheer art bubble. In the western world, it takes a series of rigid measures and much time to carry out an exhibition or gallery while it is too commercialized in China. Certainly, foreign countries also have such commercial gallery, but they spend considerable time and make great effort to seek out a good artist. It seems that things here are not well restrained. This is also the outcome of explosion of booming commerce in short term, because many software systems are legged behind, altogether contributing to the misunderstanding and misguide for art industrialization. The real art industrialization, instead of mere business deal through art exhibition or gallery, should also involve art criticism and galleries focusing on arts in different fields should be distinguished and diversified, avoiding the situation in China where one artist gets engaged with several galleries. The experiences of many young and successful artists are partially enlarged, turning into imitation props. The qualifications of the exhibition planner are also a key factor, because the art industry is now really flourishing and competitive.
《装饰》：这也是现代艺术的一个特征吧，西方也走过这条路，实际也是和工业革命以后整个经济的模式有关，艺术变成一种商品，变成一种产业。艺术家有一种矛盾，一方面抗拒这种产业化，一方面也希望能从产业化里分一杯羹，在不同个体上的表现就很微妙。
Fang: This can be a feature of modern art and the western countries share the same experience. As a matter of fact, it is concerned with the overall economic patterns since Industrial Revolution when art began to become a commodity and finally an industry. The artists are placed in a dilemma: resisting art industrialization while profiting from the art cake, which is shown subtle on different individuals.
金江波：总的来说，中国的情况就是缺少游戏规则，有时候又不遵守游戏规则，艺术家也无所适从，因为“产业化”来得太快了。
Jin: On the whole, there is lack of game rules yet sometimes occurrence of violation of the game rules, so the artists were at a loss as to what to do because industrialization emerges too swiftly.
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